Posted by Call Me R. (for Right) on November 13, 2002 at 21:30:00:
In Reply to: Re: eBay - One Seller's Experiences posted by Ross Walker on November 13, 2002 at 11:39:33:
: Sorry "Call me D", but I will have to respectfully disagree with most points you make in your post.
: >>: I have read many posts on this and similar boards about how terrible eBay sellers are.<<
: I haven't read many posts re eBay sellers on this board at all. In fact, after doing a search the only postings which address the issue of eBay sellers are the posts of a few days ago.
MANY MORE THAN THAT. BUT THEN I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS BOARD FOR ALMOST A YEAR.
: >>the girl who claims to go around Tokyo to hunt for high quality prints but can somehow only seem to find mostly cheap reprints<<
: With respect, I have had the good fortune to have purchased shin hanga prints from this seller on several occasions, and have found all of my purchases from her to be of high quality and as described. While I have never purchased reprints, I think it is wrong to criticise a seller simply because some of the prints on offer are inexpensive reprints rather than higher-priced originals. I have never known her to make misrepresentations in her auction listings, so to me she is a seller I trust, as are nearly all sellers I deal with.
I WONDER IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME PERSON? I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ONE WHO CLAIMS TO GO AROUND LOOKING FOR HIGH QUALITY PIECES YET OFFERS MOSTLY REPRINTS. SUCH REPRINTS COST $10-$30 IN TOKYO. ORIGINAL PRINTS COST BETWEEN $40-$70 AT LEAST. IF THIS PERSON WERE LOOKING FOR QUALITY PIECES AND NOT SOMETHING CHEAP, DIFFERENT PIECES WOULD APPEAR. THAT WAS MY ONLY POINT.
BUT LET ME SAY THAT I DID NOT MAKE THIS LIST TO ATTACK ANY SELLER, JUST TO SHOW WHAT ONE MUST DO TO SURVIVE IN THIS MARKET THAT SO MANY PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT, YET THROUGH THEIR ACTIONS ACTUALLY CREATE. IT IS OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT FROM LYING ABOUT ONE'S GOODS, YET IT IS DECEPTIVE - THERE ARE BETTER PRINTS AVAILABLE. BUT IS THIS PERSON RIGHT FOR BUYING THE CHEAPEST POSSIBLE PRINTS FOR THIS VENUE? - OBVIOUSLY.
: >>When I list original things well under their value, I can hardly get a bid until the last minute of the auction. It seems those in the know keep the prices low by not bidding at all, making others who don't know as much think the seller is not good or the item not worth it. Then they swoop in at the end and buy it up cheaply.<<
: You're referring to snipe bidding I guess. "Call me D", in my humble opinion it is simply *dumb* to bid your maximum bid early, and by the very fact that most buyers at your auctions "swoop in at the end" suggests that most experienced bidders have a similar opinion to mine. Some buyers like the "thrill of the hunt" and bid low amounts at an early stage in the auction cycle, but most do not enter their maximum "killer bid" until near the end of the auction. eBay's suggestion that bidders bid their maximum amount early simply preys on those bidders who cannot resist bidding more than they want to when they see they have been outbid.
EXACTLY. I UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC. I UNDERSTAND THE REASONS. I UNDERSTAND IT IS HOW THE SYSTEM HAS BEEN SET UP. BUT HOW MANY SELLERS DO YOU SEE AT EBAY CONTINUING TO OFFER ITEMS OF QUALITY BELOW THEIR ACTUAL VALUE? VERY FEW. LET ME SAY - TO PRE-EMPT YOU - THAT I AM NOT ASKING FOR A GALLERY PRICE. BUT A PRICE THAT WOULD ALLOW ME TO CONTINUE TO OFFER GOOD MERCHANDISE AT A BELOW-GALLERY PRICE TO BIDDERS WOULD BE NICE. NICE FOR BIDDERS TOO. BECAUSE, AS YOU CAN TELL FROM THIS POST, I AM ABOUT TO SAY SAYONARA TO ALL OF THAT AND LEAVE YOU TO A WASTELAND WITH BUT A FEW OASES.
: >>I also find it ironic that the very same people who complain about the ethics of eBay sellers are the ones who engage in this deceitful buying practice, which in effect drives anyone away who would offer a good product at a good price. It may be the way of eBay but it is far from ethical, and ultimately drives the quality down.<<
: I think this statement is completely incorrect, in my humble opinion. Bidding you maximum bid near the end of an auction is in no way unethical. If it was unethical, eBay would simply introduce rules to stop it (i.e., auction extension). In the end, the highest bid still wins, whether it is bid early or late. If a buyer does not bid on a quality item simply because there are currently no other bids, then IMHO that shows the buyer does not understand the value of the item being offered, i.e., the buyer is inexperienced.
EBAY DOESN'T STOP IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T REALLY CARE ABOUT ETHICS, IT CARES ABOUT MAXIMIZING CUSTOMERS. TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM WOULD HURT THIER BUSINESS, SO THEY DO NOT. BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS KIND OF BIDDING IS NOT ETHICALLY WRONG. AND YES, THE ISSUE IS PRECISELY THAT TOO FEW PEOPLE ARE IN THE KNOW, TOO MANY PEOPLE DROOL OVER THE MISLISTED, FALSELY DESCRIBED REPRINT, AND THEN THOSE IN THE KNOW SAY HOW HORRIBLE IT IS. WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE SELLERS WHO TRY TO SELL ANYTHING DECENT, BUT RATHER TRYING TO GET THEIR GOODS AS CHEAPLY AS POSSIBLE. EVEN IF IT MEANS HURTING THAT SELLER BY IGNORING HIS/HER GOODS UNTIL THE LAST 10 SECONDS OF AN AUCTION - A SUBTLE SLANDER AT BEST. ONE COULD AT MINIMUM PLACE THE LOWEST POSSIBLE BID TO EXPRESS INTEREST (WITHOUT MUCH RAISING THE FINAL PRICE) BUT THIS MIGHT LEAD TO OTHERS BEING INTERESTED AS WELL, WHICH IS WHAT THE SNIPER DOES NOT WANT.
: >>So, before you complain about eBay sellers, please examine your own buying practices.<<
: Well, I never bid early, so I guess I must be guilty as charged ^^
I DOUBT THIS POST WILL CHANGE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE IN THEIR BIDDING HABITS, BUT I WILL SAY AGAIN, THE POINT OF MY POST IS NOT TO RIDICULE OR ATTACK YOU, YOUR HABITS OR THOSE OF ANY SELLER, BUT TO SAY: THIS IS THE SYSTEM, AND HOW DO YOU EXPECT GOOD TO EMERGE FROM IT? MY ONE AND SINGLE POINT IS THAT YOU CANNOT EXPECT PEOPLE TO KEEP OFFERING ORIGINAL, VALUABLE WORKS IF BIDDERS ARE NOT SUPPORTING THEM IN THIS.
: >>If you are the type who would do anything to get the item for the lowest possible price, please do not be shocked to find sellers doing whatever they can to get things at the highest possible price.<<
: There is nothing a buyer can do to win an auction for less than another buyer is willing to pay.
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. IF I HAD $1 FOR EVERY "I REALLY WANTED THIS BUT GOT OUTBID IN THE LAST 5 SECONDS, IF HE DOESN'T SHOW UP WILL YOU SELL IT ME" LETTER I HAVE RECEIVED, I WOULDN'T BE COMPLAINING! YOU SAID YOURSELF THAT THIS IS THE PURPOSE OF SNIPPING - NOT TO GIVE THE OTHER GUY A SECOND CHANCE.
Also, there is absolutely no reason for sellers to use unethical and/or dishonest methods (as seen in a recent post) to sell prints.
100% AGREED. I WOULDN'T FORGIVE TERRORISTS BECAUSE OF AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY EITHER. BUT IF YOU ASK WHY IT EXISTS, YOU NEED TO GO THERE. UNPOPULAR AS MY POST HAS BEEN, I AM GOING THERE. I DIDN'T EXPECT APPLAUSE. I EXPECTED AN OUTCRY FROM BIDDERS WHO LIKE TO SNIPE. BUT I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT THIS.
: "Call me D", snipe bidding will always be with you, so it may be wise to review your selling strategies, such as minimum bid and reserve amount. At least that way you will be able to sell your prints at prices that are acceptable to you. Best wishes for your future auctions.
THANK YOU, ROSS. WE ARE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE FENCE, WITH VIEWPOINTS INFLUENCED BY OUR PARTICULAR INTERESTS, BUT I RESPECT YOUR STRAIGHTLY EXPRESSED POINT OF VIEW.
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